Linked as part of my morning rundown.

This article is also of interest when considering the situation in NO prior to the hurricane/flooding.

Bill - it's not just the NORTA busses, there are hundreds, even thousands of school busses that could have been mobilized to transport people out of NO -- if when the mandatory evacuation was ordered all school bus drivers were told to report to their depots (with their families to make sure they would get out too) and trips to Baton Rouge begun.

I would think in two days, they could have completed at least two, perhaps four round trips with an average of 50 people per bus -- if there are 500 school busses (I'll bet more) that would be another 25,000 people per trip!

One problem/question unanswered concerning use of either these or NORTA busses would be where should they have ridden out the actual strike of Katrina.

EXACTLY!

The evacuation planning was the responsibility of the City. Maintaining law and order was the responsibility of the City.

You know, we can talk all day about what coulda/woulda/shoulda been done. But Ray Nagin is a real leader. The mayor of your town is NEVER EVER going to stand up for you the way this man has stood up for his people.

As a native of New Orleans, I can tell you that you hear about 'the big one' every time it rains. So you evacuate and nothing happens. And then the next time you evacuate again and nothing happens. And the next time you evacuate again and nothing happens. Five or six more storms down the line, you start to think it's pointless to go through through all of that for nothing.

Clearly, the big one really did come this time, but the message was the same message it's been every time, and none of us are psychic. Is it arrogant? Maybe. But there's a whole state built on a piece of land that should fall off the face of the continent any day now on the west coast.

And like I said, your mayor is never going to step up for you the way he has.

Nagin's leadership was so good that a 100,000 of his poorest citizens were left to risk death in a Cat-4 hurricane.

Yeah. He stepped up.

Hey. How was the murder rate in New Orleans under his leadership? Rising. And the police force was shrinking.

Yeah. He's a leader.

He's Guilianiesque.

NOT.

Bill, why are you kicking the people of NO why they are down? Do you think this is what they need to hear? Nice words of encouragement.

I'm not kicking the people of New Orleans. I'm kicking Nagin. He let them down big time, and many will die because of it.

I'm pointing out Nagin's colossal failure because the Left is treating him as some kind of hero because he said mean things about George W. Bush.

I counted about 203 school buses in the photo, each of which could normally carry 48 to 56 adults, but maybe a hundred in a pinch. That's enough to evacuate 10,000 to 20,000 people per trip.

If the photographer had zoomed out we'd surely see more buses.

That were very well deserved. Sorry, but W. failed the people of NO too.

So do you think the federal government (FEMA, Homeland Security) has any responsibility for the delay and/or complete lack of aide to these people?

Even if the mayor failed, the responsibility for the lack of aid immediately following the disaster lies squarely on our so-called president. Think about it, Rudy Giuliani didn't clean up 9/11 on his own. We can have a C-130 airborne in 2 hours full of food and airdrop the same day in Iraq and Afghanistan, yet it takes 5 days to drop food into New Orleans? So what if there are stray renegades shooting? Do you think they don't in other devastated countries where we provide aid? I'm asking myself, What has this president done to make me safer? Nothing, for all the hubris over the Patriot Act, Homeland Security, and other programs, we are no safer than we were before 9/11. If terrorists had bombed the levees instead of a hurricane, we would be in the same situation. Thanks a lot Mr. Bush.

As a frequent visitor of your site, I am personally disturbed by this post and the manner in which you are criticizing the efforts for the Mayor of NO.

The people that were left behind were individuals who were very poor. Some of them did not have credit cards to rent a car or stay in a hotel; more over, even have a car to drive out of NO. They did the only thing that could do. Stay.

If anyone is to blame, it is the Federal Government. They are the ones that have the massive budget to take care of situations like that. Let us not forget that half of our National Reserve men are in another country. And for what reason?

It seems like our commander in chief felt the need to cut Hurricane Projects in NO in advance to this event... You tell me how someone like a city mayor can have a handle on the Nation's largest catastrophe when our own Federal Government isn't there to help?

Shame on you Mr. Hobbs!

You cannot say he failed because he didn't evacuate an entire city by bus ahead of time. That's ignorance. I'm sure you'd have something negative to say no matter what happened, simply because you have this site to maintain. You only come off looking like an asshole though.

Feel free to label that as a personal attack and delete this post.

Nagin For President!

whatever should have been done is in the past

shouldn't we be focusing on outside help now and how much this disaster is being prioritized... or do we just want to pick on this guy instead?

Bill,

Don't you know it's all George Bush's fault??? After all Kayne West said so on NBCs concert tonight. "George Bush doesn't care about black people" and "America is set up to help black people as slowly as possible."

Please don't recommend people give to the Red Cross anymore. This was their benefit concert, and I hold them responsible for the racist filth spewed out. There are plenty of funnels without their baggage.

An anonymous commenter said:

The people that were left behind were individuals who were very poor. Some of them did not have credit cards to rent a car or stay in a hotel; more over, even have a car to drive out of NO. They did the only thing that could do. Stay.

EXACTLY.

And why were they left behind? Because Mayor Nagin didn't use the thousand or so transit and school buses at his disposal to get them out.

Bill, again I ask you, whether he failed or not,where does the the responsibility for the lack of aid immediately following the disaster lie?

Bill, What if this had been a terrorist attack? Where would your beloved Homeland Security be?

If you're feeling pinned in a corner by these questions, thank the so-called president you voted for and supported for so long. Many of us have known for a while the spots on this leopard.

Do you think the federal government (FEMA, Homeland Security) is completely free of responsibility for the delay and/or complete lack of aide to these people?

Well I'll answer that Mountain Girl,
The 1st place aid comes from is at the local level. If they are overwhelmed, the state steps in, I mean, thats why I pay local, state and federal taxes right?

Bill has a point, all the interviews I've seen today places the blame at the federal level. The city of NO and the state of Louisiana have failed its residents miserably. I'm still waiting to see what there plan was.

Has Harold Ford issued a press release calling for Ray Nagin's resignation?

We put so much pressure on our leaders. They are just men and women just like us. They have the same concerns we do. The mayor of New Orleans was a former Cox Cable CEO. Does that mean he took Hurricane Preparation and Rescue 101 in college? No. Sometimes people have to be responsible for their own family's safety. I agree that aid was slow in arriving. I live in Louisiana, and I know more than anyone. Yet, I also know that there were a million things to be done and almost no help. Of course, we can look back now and show how things could have been prevented, but looking back helps no one. I pray for the loss of a great city, and I pray that intelligent people like you with so many great plans will run for public office and shoulder some of the blame. Can you handle life and death decisions, or is dishing out blame on your blog hard enough?

You can't start blaming Bush until you start at the lowest level which means the mayor and gov let down their people more, cause they directly led them. They could have kicked up more of a fuss years ago when the ACOE levee budgets were slashed and found some way to get the levees up to snuff

Looks like Mountain Girl just wants to blame Bush regardless of the facts. Mountain Girl, have you ever been involved in something like this, with 3 different levels of government? I have. While with the USAF in 1976 in Grand Forks, ND, we offered to deliver sand bags flown in from North Carolina. The state was asked, then the mayor of Grand Forks. It took 6 hours to get an answer back. By the way, the National Guard comes under the governor. Gov Blanco had to pull the NG back on Sunday night, and then couldn't communicate with the Mayor after Kartrina hit. Hindsight says she should have acted without waiting to contact the mayor. Too bad we can't all work together. This is why I detest political parties. They try to pit average people like us against each other. Vote against the incumbent in each election or vote Independent. If you put a Democrat and Republican in bag, shook it up and then pulled them out, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart.

Mountain Girl:

We can have a C-130 airborne in 2 hours full of food and airdrop the same day in Iraq and Afghanistan, yet it takes 5 days to drop food into New Orleans?

As a former active duty Air Force member, I have no choice but to say: You are on crack. Utterly bereft of a clue. Making it up as you go along. Fabricating "facts" to support a partisan agenda. Am I clear?

Blame, incompetance or outright fraud. The responsibility for civil defense and disaster preparedness begins at the local level and goes all the way to D.C. But the ultimate responsibility lies with the individual.

Face it, you can not depend on governemnt for anything but taxes, waste, fraud and abuse. Since 9/11 the feds have burned up billions for so called homeland security. $41B this year alone.

Instead of focusing on the real issues, every level of government has misused their resources for meaningless pork or patronage projects that contribute nothing to security unless it's to secure the bank accounts of the lobbyists and politicans.

Your fearless leaders have sold you down the tubes while standing on their soap boxes beating their chests proclaiming security and safety. Their security and their safety deep in the mountains of West Virgina.

Half of the NO police abandoned their city most likely because they saw the incompetence in their leadership and lack of planning. Gov. Blanco is a pathetic excuse for leadership beyond the local garden club president. Congress should be embarrassed and disgraced for all the blather from 9/11 hearings to the latest gutless energy bill. They all should be brought up on charges of misuse of government funds.

And as for blaming GWB? He barely passed in college and he's barely passing now. The same can be said for Kerry as well.

There's enough blame to go around and it's water over the levy so to speak. You can bet there will be millions of dollars spent on hearings and studies. But in the long run it will be business as usual.

Bureaucracy does not belong to party. It's slow to react if it reacts at all.

With all of the training, untold billions, restructuring and even with ample warning, government still failed and failed miserably at all levels. And when the government fails, innocents are the victims and more often than not they pay with their lives.

This makes the Mayor's actions much worse and even unforgivable:

"Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding." AP - AUGUST 28, 2005 10:48AM (http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?base/news-18/1125239940201382.xml&storylist=louisiana)

The city was engineered to survive a cat 3, when it was a cat 5 The President called and pleaded, knowing that recovery efforts would take time.

Later in the story it is stated that the city was empowered to, "comandeer any vehicle or building that could be used for evacuation or shelter."

Personally I think the "manditory" evacuation was a half harted effort by the Mayor. Now he claims it is Bush's fault!
DKK

Interesting the folks that come to the aid of the mayor for doing NOTHING.

Total partisian yaking. He and that "great" governor of Louisiana suck to high heaven. You can spin it any way you dang well feel like, but the picture of the swamped buses cannot be just shrugged off. One very determined 18 year old stole one of the buses and saved over 60 people. If a boy of 18 years of age can think clear then maybe he should be mayor. The Mayor's non-action killed people.

President Bush acted way to slow also but he did call and request that NO be evacuated.

HINT: use the empty parked buses.

Mountaiun Girl - the responsibility for the initial relief lies with the CITY AND STATE.

Go look it upo for yourself. Release your hatered of Bush for long enough to look at the facts. Here they are in the official Federal documents detaling this as of 2004.

www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRPbaseplan.pdf
NAGIN FAILED and the poor of New Orleans DIED.

Its all right there: page 26 is jsut one place inthe 114 pages of how FEMA and fed releif works.

A mayor or city or county manager, as a jurisdiction’s chief executive, is responsible for the public safety and welfare of the people of that jurisdiction. The Local Chief Executive Officer:

■ Is responsible for coordinating local resources to address the full spectrum of actions to prevent, prepare for, respond to, and recover from incidents involving all hazards including terrorism, natural
disasters, accidents, and other contingencies;

HERES YOUR CLUE: THis was a Cat4-5 storm. They knew the levees were designed (back in the late 1970's) to only hold for a Cat 3. THey had a plan to shelter in the Dome BUT DIDNT PUT ANY FOOD OR WATER THERE! Criminal Incompetence by the Mayor.

■ Dependent upon State and local law, has extraordinary powers to suspend local laws and ordinances, such as to establish a curfew, direct evacuations, and, in coordination with the local health authority, to order a quarantine;

HERS YOUR CLUE: THe Mayor did NOTHING early on about looting or preserving order. They didnt even pull the police and EMS vehicles to higher ground. Indeed there is already famous video of the POLICE looting things like DVDs themselves. The Gov didnt declare that the Guard could shoot looters until day *5*. She also dindt ask for federalization, which means the FEMA hands were tide by law until she did.

■ Provides leadership and plays a key role in communicating to the public, and in helping people, businesses, and organizations cope with the consequences of any type of domestic incident within the jurisdiction;

HERE'S YOUR CLUE: His incessant fingerpoint in hopes of casting blame away form the corrupt government of New Orleans (Previous adminstration has how many under indictment for corruption?? Hmm?) and lack of any leadership made things WORSE. He didnt coordinate with the Salvation Army, Catholic Charities, or any of the other disaster relife agencies that could have had food and water there at the dome. He Did NOT coordinate with the state who could have had more guard troops and state police there sooner. He did NOT do like NY did and gather the business leaders and ask them to put their people and best brians to solving this.

Instead he tried to angrily cast emotional darts so people will not look so closely at him and realize HE is to blame for the excess deaths through his incompetence.

No insults: its all there in the facts. Compare and contrast the response in communities hit much harder in Mississippi: thre was LEADERHIP there, and planning - and execution of the plans. Same goes for those Florida communities who handled hurricanes as well. THey planned, and executed the plan. The flaw here isnt in the Fed response - it was right on time, within 5 days. It was that the local response was non-existent and the state response was mixed up mudddled and poorly planed. Indeed Presidnet Bush delcared the disaster EARLY - after he had to talk the Gov of La into it - and begged her to start the evac earlier than they did.

You who are defending Naggy had better wake up. You're rewqarding a criminal for criminal behavior.

A few more facts for the folks who don't seem to have any:

So what prompted the order that prevented Hurricane Katrina from being a natural disaster of unprecedented magnitude?

This: The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should. Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding.

Thats right - BUSH asked them to evacuate sooner. It's to his credit that FEWER died that would have, had he not gotten to the Gov when he did.

And here have a look at this:

Here is the ">State plan, southeast Louisiana evac plan supplement, most recently revised in 2000. Go to page 13, read paragraph 5. It states:

And thats just a supplement to this.

There are all kinds of things required of the state and local governemnt in these documents. This is the handbook for running thier state and cities during a crisis. This is their job responsibility to either know it themselves like Rudy Guiliani, or have a staff that does like San Francisco and Los Angeles do for earthquakes.

The facts are there - and there is no excuse for them not to have known and excuted these plans properly.

Nagin opened the door with his blasts at the Feds in the press. He is the one trying to politicize this whole thing, so he bears the brunt of the backlash that is surely, and justifiably, going to happen.

Brittney conveniently wants the federal government to bail people out--but she's so very libertarian in the realm of self-indulgences.

Many people did have a way out--they chose to stay. And their decision may not have been a poor decision had the levees not broken.

The Governor and the Mayor did a pitiful job. They had much warning--plenty of time to call neighboring states and make arrangements.

If you will recall 9/11, the President came to visit the site and meet with Rudy--he said we'll help whatever your needs are.

I don't expect the President to know the ins and outs, the needs, etc. of every city. If such a disaster happened in Tenn., we would expect Phil Bredesen to inform the federal government of where we need help, what areas our state services were lacking, etc.

I'm tired of the finger pointing. President Bill Clinton was on tv two nights ago--offering hope, words of encouragement, praise, and support. The over politicizing of everything--and I mean everything--by the loony left like Brittney--is taking her party over a cliff. Bill and Hillary Clinton know it--but the rest of the over-wraught super commies that make up the most vocal part of the Democratic party don't.

Brittney doesn't understand that there are times when everyone should come together and work for a solution instead of standing on the sidelines throwing bombs from her computer.

After the problems are solved, we can look back and ask what could have been done better. Instead people like her tout her drunkeness and choice of better beers as a contribution to society.

From Tombstone: What are you going to do about it? Just stand there and bleed?

People are in need---so shut up and help. Lots of people are--but true to the loony left--all they're good at is complaining--never offering real answers--whether it be terrorism or natural disasters.

Blanco is equally responsible for this comedy! The mayor had authority over the transit district busses but Blanco had authority over the school busses. In La school districts are not under the control of the mayor but the school district. The plans scrapped by Blanco called for using all the busses and brining in more if needed from surrounding school districts - NONE of which was done - because Blanco scrapped all the plans. No one knew who was responsible for what once that happend. Blanco needs to be removed immediately if she wont resign then they need to impeach her, it's the only way to get her out of the way so lives can be saved.

I just wanted to give my two cents here. I live in Baton Rouge and have for my entire life. I have been around New Orleans my whole life, I know people who grew up there. I have never liked New Orleans, not even a little tiny bit. In my opinion it isn't worth visiting because of the scumbags and criminals who overshadow the good people who live there. I totally agree that if people want to start pointing fingers point them directly at Ray Nagin and Kathleen Blanco. It isn't like people around here haven't known that New Orleans is a giant sinkhole waiting to flood. It's pretty much a running joke that anyone who gets elected around here tends to be either totally corrupt or an incompotent jackass or frequently both. If New Orleans had handled things properly, things would be much different right now but they will suffer their own consequences. I feel very bad for the poor people who weren't able to evacuate and I hope they get out safely but as for the gangbangers and looters and scumbags left in the city, why in the hell would we spend money saving them? They are why New Orleans has so many problems to begin with, just let the scumbags die. Don't bother calling me a nazi, I've been to New Orleans too many times to care what happens to those people and now I get to deal with them hanging out at my local Wal-Mart and calling me a faggot and verbally abusing their wives as loudly as possible in the middle of the store. Exactly the kind of crap I'm talking about, aren't they appreciative for still being alive? And just to cover my ass I'm not talking about black people, I'm not a racist, it takes people of all colors to make up that particular cesspool.

Looking at the picture Bill, the number of school buses looks like about 200. Estimating that a bus could comfortably transport 50 people each, that means 10,000 people could be removed per trip.

How far would they have to have gone I guess would answer how many trips and therefore that many residents removed.

Why weren't shelters set up somewhere outside of New Orleans, especially knowing that New Orleans is a city built in the bottom of a bowl?

I've posted parts of a transcript of a radio interview Nagin did where he complains that the administration is thinking too small and not creatively enough- they wanted to send him schoolbus drivers to evacuate people, and he thinks that is ridiculous, they should get greyhound buses from all over the country to come in.

IOW, schoolbuses are not good enough for him, darn it. His people will sit there and die until somebody takes him seriously and sends greyhound bus drivers!

I'm not saying the local govt. isn't partially blame. What I am asking is, if it was obvious they failed, why did it take so long for the federal government to help? How is a devastated local government supposed to help
itself? Umm, that's why we're having this discussion.

This has to be a joke, right?
" .... Bill and Hillary Clinton know it--but the rest of the over-wraught super commies that make up the most vocal part of the Democratic party don't." from Terry

Super Commies?
Are there people who actually talk like this today?
Maybe it is a new Marvel comics title?

"Why weren't shelters set up somewhere outside of New Orleans, especially knowing that New Orleans is a city built in the bottom of a bowl?"

They were. The Red Cross had relief centers set up outside the flood area to accomadate over 70,000. They sat mostly empty.

Mountaingirl asks why it took so long for the feds to respond.

I dunno. Perhaps the logistical nightmares that occur when power, water, communications systems and transportation systems all completely disappear had something to do with it.

Fire the mayor, remove hte gov'nor..they are directly responsible, they failed their people, they failed their oaths. Where there is no clear LOCAL leadership, when the local political system is corrupt, broken and ineffective you put humans at risk until the Federal system can step in: there is no excuse for the local political collapse, they must be removed...

Well Mountain Girl, the reason it took so longer for the Federal Government to respond is because, as Michael Chertoff just said, by law they had to wait for the Governor to ask for them. The Governor of LA has also just hired ex-FEMA director James Witt to act as her liason with FEMA. Does that prove she, along with the mayor, aren't up to the task at hand? There's a word in the English language called "communications". More people need to learn the word and then use it!

I predict this mess will simply create yet another federalization of existing programs, meaning less state control and an ever-increasing federal employment program.

MountainGirl (and others in the Blame Bush First club):

Your predispostion to blame Bush has addled your wits. The Feds are doing just what they always have. Indeed, compared to Andrew and some of the other hurricanes, they are responding twice as fast.

If you look at the facts, and not the political spin coming out of CNN, the misdirection by the Demcoratic politicians who are at fault, and the race-baiters like Jesse Jackson: Its obvious that it is the local governments who failed, not the Feds.

The truth is out there - will you have the courage to look and abandon your prejudice?

And FYI -- nice dodge on your fabrication of things like C-130's in 2 hours. That statment is a load of crap. Even when I was on "ready force" at Ft Braggg, it would take us several hours to get "up", and all our gear was pre-positioned for load, blance and fuel requirements. Try doign that with an ad-hoc load, and you'll either kill the crew and destroy the airframe, or take a lot longer for the thing to be loadmastered, etc. Like your blaming the feds (and Bush by extension), you're better off shutting your mouth than speaking where you have neither facts nor nor experience, nor intellectual depth.

This is actually very simple, so I will spell it out.

Your political potshots are not only shortsighted and hateful (and reveal your inability to see facts that contradict your emotional attachment to your hatred of Bush and conservatives), its ignorant to the extreme. So here is some education, free.

There is an old military maxim: Amateurs talk tactics; Professionals talk logistics. Remember that.

Moving men, equipment and supplies across an area with no electricity, no fuel, and damaged roads and flooding is not a simple task. The troops have to bring their own food with them. They have to clear the roads along the way. They have to bring their own fuel with them since there are no operational gas pumps. And all that is just to get *them* there, not including any water purification, food and shelter they need to bring to the people in the disaster zone. And they do this on short notice, across flooded and broken terrain.

Now Read the documents I linked to. Fed and State. Or jsut read the citations about what the state and local government are supposed to do, and how long they sustain their roles.

Read the FEMA standards - on which ALL those "local" officials had been briefed. They knew the Feds take about 5 days to get anywhere in any numbers. The Feds (in the form of FEMA) got there day 1 9becasue Bush declared the area a disaster area a DAY AHEAD of the storm strike). But they couldnt *do* anything because the locals had no control over the situation and were not communicating AT ALL to FEMA, nor to the state. The Guard Troops were there on Day 3, and by day 5 there were there in large numbers ("The cavalry is here").

Read the STATE document at the link I posted. State was responsible for things until the Feds arrived ans was expected to mantian the local governments for about a week. And they are responsible for triggering the Fed response. Constitutionally, the Feds CANNOT do anything until the state Gov asks for it. The Stafford Act and the Posse Comitatus laws are very clear about the inability of the Federal GOvernemnt to intervene in a state without the state first requeting it.

The Feds did not fail. They came in right when they were supposed to - indeed they were actually early compared to some readiness plans. The problem is that the place was a shambles due to Nagin and the locals being completely incompetent, squandering chance after chance and letting their people die when they KNEW they were supposed to be following the evac plans, which had them using Buses, etc to evac people - when they KNEW the Superdome would have 10's of thousands of peopel there yet didnt bother to stock any food or water. They KNEW the levees were not designed nor rated for anything greater than a Cat 3, yet didnt offer any assistance for getting people out of the city. They KNEW that if the levees broke the Superdown would lose power water and sewage, and yet had no evacuation plans or supply plans and didnt even tell the Feds that is where people were going to be (FEMA was looking at refugee camps OUTSIDE the city early on). They had no route out.

Check out Mississippi for an example of how things are supposed to work. The Mayor of Gulfport did his job informaing and evacuating his people and supporitng local EMS/Law-enforcement, the Gov of Miss did his job communicating the local needs to the Feds and maintaing law and order iwht an early martial law and curfew, and the Feds moved in there smoothly and quickly linking up with the local and state leaders. Nobody was getting shot at, no rampant looting, no people stranded in *local*govt* evac areas with no food and water.

Bottom Line: in any disaster the state and local authorities are supposed to handle it for 3-5 days, until the Feds can arrive in significant numbers. The officials in Alabama, Missisippi and parts of Louisiana did their job and things worked there. The Mayor of New Orleans Failed and his people are dying andhave died in large numbers. The Feds arrived as scheduled in both places.

I'll put it in terms even those with BDS can understand, straight out of Sesame Street:

The Feds worked Miss which got far worse storm damge. The Feds worked well in severely damaged parts of Alabama. They even worked well in the areas north of New Orleans in Louisiana. But things utterly failed in New Orleans.

One of these things is not like the others. One of these things just doenst belong.

Do the math.

To paraphase one of the great campaign slogans of all time:

Its the New Orleans Mayor and his local government, stupid.

Now for my two cents:
There is absolutely no reason why hospitalized patients should have been left in N.O., when they knew a hurricane was coming. Now you have health care workers who have had to endure incredible hardships to take care of patients, and patients who have died because of this fiasco.
Why is it that the hospital system I work for had a plane full of people enroute to Baton Rouge by early Wednesday, YET the state leadership in LA still don't seem to have their acts together?
You need to read the N.O. hurricane plan to see whose responsibility it is to LEAD.
As a nurse, I am appalled by the lack of local and state leadership. I will flat out guarantee you that such WOULD NOT HAPPEN IN OKLAHOMA.
BTW: I am at work in an ER in Tulsa. We are waiting for evacuees that are supposed to be coming. We are ready and willing to help. Logistics are difficult, but we are ready.

All you people criticizing Nagin and making any attempts at all just to discredit Nagin make me sick. Have you nothing better to do then to just sit in front of your computer and waste countless hours spewing such BS? Instead of wasting so much time, why don't YOU help the people of New Orleans?? Go to MoveOn.org and put your money where your mouth is. Open your house to these people you seem to care so much about. I highly doubt any of you would do that. None of you have credibility and the fact that you are trying any attempts to smear and place blame on this guy and try to take the focus away from the REAL issues that what we have seen from the Bush administration is CRIMINAL. Nagin is a Mayor and there is only so much one man can do without the help and backing of our governments. I read how Nagin dropped the ball and killed poor people because he didn't bus tens of thousands of people 100 miles north to the closest city??? And do what???? Where is he going to put those people?? Leave them in the buses? Leave them on the street? Do you realize what more chaos that would have created?

People were instructed to go to the Superdome. This was a desperate attempt at scrambling to save peoples' lives and give them shelter. Things were being done but without the help of OUR government and our disaster recovery agencies, there is only so much ONE Mayor can do. Did Nagin make all the right decisions? I'm not sure. Is he alone responsible for this mess? NO. I'm sorry people but you seem to lose focus on the real issues here and you can whine like little babies all you want to try and divert attention away from the poorest excuse for a so-called President that this country has ever seen. If you want to do something, get up off you asses and do something. This whole county is falling to pieces because we have a sick delusional careless murdering commander and chief. You're going to blame Nagin? You're going to sit there and tell me George W. said to evacuate everybody so let it be written, let it be done meanwhile when Katrina hit and was destroying our cities our president was golfing in Arizona? Working on his terrible tan after blowing off a mother of one of the thousands of soldiers who are dying every die for a lie? All she wanted to know without calling media attention to herself was "What noble cause?" and our president doesn't even have an answer for that does he. We'll stay the course and fight terror there so we don't have to fight them here? You've got to be kidding me. How blind are you people? You are all brainwashed sheep. I wouldn't even be spending time reading all your worthless words if I hadn't accidentally stumbled across this site. You can say whatever you want about Nagin right or wrong. Prove all you can prove and pull up all the facts of what a good mayor should do in a time of crisis... but you know what? How about digging up some prove of what the President of the United States should do in a time of crisis. Who are you going to blame for the tsunami disaster in Asia? Do you know how fast and swift there government came in and all helped? Do you realize how incredibly careless and unorganized we look compared to the rest of the world and we are the most rich, most power nation in the world? That's a reflection on Mr.. Bush my friends. When he finally decided to "take" action... after people like Nagin admitted that he could not DO IT ALONE. Then DAYS AFTER the fact you FINALLY saw what REAL actions should have been taken. Now you are seeing it. That is what a real government who cares for their people does.

All during the crisis you had that other republican puppet thanking the praising the President, saying how much he has been doing, and that everything was being taken care of. WHAT?!? Are you kidding me? Please! Nagin is the one man who stepped up and spoke his mind and spoke his heart. I've seen more heart in Nagin that I ever did in George W in all his years as our president. I praise Nagin. He may have possible made bad judgment calls prior to Katrina making landfall but he has heart and he had the spirit to step up against this administration to do something... ANYTHING!

What we and the rest of the world have witnessed was not the failure of Nagin. It was the failure of George W. Bush. If George W even had a fraction of the heart that Nagin has, we would not be in the sad state of affairs that we are in today. And believe me people.. it is SAD and it's CRIMINAL. So you go off all you want about Nagin should have done this and Nagin should have done that and crying like you actually care about these poor people in New Orleans. There is a much bigger problem here and this disaster has proved a major flaw in this administration that a lot of us already knew was there.

You want to do some research? Research where all the oil refineries are in the United States because you are being lied to AGAIN. The Gulf only accounts for 1/10 of our countries resources. That's it! You're being lied to. You have always been lied to and you believe it and you have nothing else better to do but bash Nagin and dig up whatever you can to discredit the man and take focus away from the real issues at hand. Like I said, regardless of Nagin's judgments right or wrong... I doesn't surprise me that a Mayor without the backing of his own government would fail. I DON'T expect our government to fail and to fail at such a criminal extent! You are all just sheep and I would like to reiterate Nagin's words to this government to you people who find the time and energy to smear him, "get up off you asses!" Do something worth something. You make me sick. I bet you people are the same kind of people who put little ribbon magnets on the back of your cars because you care oh so much about our people being murdered in Iraq for no reason whatsoever. Does that make you feel better? Does it help you to sleep better at night with your magnets on your cars? Does it help you think you are a better person by trashing Nagin, a man with heart and love? I can't sit back and listen or read this BS. It amazes me that there is so much of this going on. Look around you. Take a look around at what is happening to you country. If you are in the so called "middle class" be concerned... be very concerned because the middle class is perishing. There will be no more middle class in this country and we will all be people who our President will sit back and ignore while he is vacationing, golfing, and catching up on his tan. Don't blame Nagin for the failures of our President who only cares for the people who support him... the rich. He doesn't care for the poor and if you think he cares for you or your family, you are WRONG. If George W keeps his throne as dictator of our country, we will all one day find ourselves in the same situation as those extremely unfortunate people in New Orleans... and YOU WILL BE IGNORED. You government WILL abandon you and you will be left to die on the street.They already did to the fine people of New Orleans and don't think that you are an exception. You wife, your husband, your children, your parents and grandparents with absolutely no support. Nagin was a shining light through this disaster and spoke his mind from his heart (something people of this country seemed to forget how to do for the RIGHT reasons). But sit here and keep this ridiculous thread growing if it makes you feel better about yourselves. If you ever find yourself in that situation you better get down on your knees and pray to whatever god you believe in that there is going to be somebody like Nagin there to save you.

Bill thanks for adding important information regarding the NORTA buses to this story.

When I heard Mayor Nagin scream that he needed FIVE HUNDRED BUSES, it makes me sick to think he had that many or more which could have been used if only he acted in time.

President Bush declared a state of emergency in Louisiana on SATURDAY. Nagin waited until SUNDAY to do the same for New Orleans.

It's been so very painful to see the photos and hear the stories of people trapped in filth, many dying with no aid or comfort knowing that much of it could have been prevented.

New Orleans should have heeded the wake up call it got from near miss Hurricane Ivan last year.

I am even more upset that rather than pitch in to help, too many are jumping to use this as an opportunity to inflame racial hatred and point fingers (at anyone but themselves).

Will some reporter please ask Nagin why he failed to impelement the cities disaster evacuation plan using the buses?

I dunno. Perhaps the logistical nightmares that occur when power, water, communications systems and transportation systems all completely disappear had something to do with it.

The three to ten feet of flood water engulfing half the city probably didn't help either.

But hey, we all know the president is responsible for every state, city and municipality's safety. That's why the city's Emergency Management Plan says "Conduct of an actual evacuation will be the responsibility of the Mayor of New Orleans..."

Joe--I know you say you don't take sides--you are famously independent (so you say.)

But I like a term that applies. As the storm was looming over the seas, Jesse Jackson was hugging and giggling with a left wing communist murdering thug by the name of Hugo Chavez. Chavez is getting ready to nationalize the banks as I write.

And perhaps instead of mocking my choice of terms, you should research some of the Trotskyites down at Camp Crawford (like Code Pink and United for Peace and Justice)--as well as the likes of Ramsey Clark who was representing that cuddly national leader named Saddam Hussein.

Just because the Soviet Union fell apart, you think there still aren't communist/socialists/Marxists marching around?

Maybe you would prefer Pinkos or Reds or NeoComs (as David Horowitz prefers), makes no difference to me. .. and I'll prefer to identify you as woefully naive or intentionally misleading.

I guess "Mike" who's in awe of MoveOn.org hasn't bothered to read any of the posts explaining that planning and execution starts at the local level - and that would be Mayor Nagin.

Go back and read the Post by "Old Spook" and follow the advice: "...you're better off shuting your mouth than speaking where you have neither facts nor experience, nor intellectual depth."

Some of us have the experience. Get the facts, don't try to spin things like MoveOn.org and other Liberals do. Many of us don't give a hoot about what political party does what; we want things done right at ALL LEVELS, because next time it may a man made disaster, like terrorism!

I just want to say - the carping at Nagin would not be nearly so intense if Nagin hadn't started it.

I can understand not wanting to face the reality of a cat4 or 5 hitting your city. I can overlook some incompetence - we all screw up now and then.

What I simply cannot stomach is Nagin's abuse of people who are trying to correct his errors as best they can. Just got off the phone with a good Christian woman, down in Baton Rouge, up all night making sandwiches for delivery to hospitals. She was doing okay until she heard Nagin's speech, lashing out and cursing like a thug - then she broke down in tears. "We're doing the best we can." says she. "He doesn't have to blaspheme my God. We didn't cause the hurricane." 50/60 yrs old, no sleep for a week, putting in her own time and money just to get abuse from a - well.

'nuff said.

Bill: I can't believe you are getting so many Bush haters blaming this disaster on an inadequate federal response.

Imagine what they would have said if Bush had declared martial Law on Saturday and forcibly seized the transportation assests of New Orleans?

As you pointed out to one of the obviously clueless libs: It was the poorest of the poor and the sick who suffered most in this because local government who has the primary responsiblity here failed to implement their OWN plan.

Does the concept of local government accountability mean nothing to these folks!

This is a tragedy that could have been, should have been prevented and the people who are responsible are those who were on the scene with the special resources and information that only the local government has.

If the libs really want the federal government to take over all local responsibilities, then I'll ask the President to appoint me grand poobah of some grand metropolis.... I'll start working on my list.

If Nagin ever runs for President, he has my vote. We need leaders who know how to LEAD, not ditz around, indecisive and fiddling away while Rome is burning.

Allow me to sum up this thread for the W. haters:

Bush lied, how many more will die? And he doesn't care about poor black folks either. If only the sheeple had elected John Kerry as POTUS.

John Kerry, reporting for duty, would have gone to NOLA last Saturday in order to drive a school bus back and forth between NOLA and Baton Rouge to evacuate the oppressed masses.

By Monday night, President Kerry would have rounded up some of his swift boat brothers, donned his magic Cambonian Christmas hat, and delivered MREs and water to those trapped in the cesspool.

President Kerry also would have felt the pain of the looters, and opened up dialouge with them to gain understanding about why they feel the need to shoot rescuers, kill innocents, and take or destroy the property of survivors who had the means and good sense to flee.

Kerry's got the fake tan going for him. He could have afforded to cut his vacation short by several days.

Been out playing in the raw sewage Garrett? Take a bath.

Per the current administration the DHS has authority in these situations and should have been working with the city to ensure that all of the resources were used correctly and efficiently.His cries for help were valid and it should not have taken 5 days for help to arrive. Also slightly of topic there was more than one area involved in this disaster.

Copied directly from the DHS page.
In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America's families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp

Nagin is incompetent - a disgrace to New Orleans, and obviously not the savior of it. No doubt there are questions as to the federal response, but the evacuation plan formulated by NO itself five years ago specifically called for using school buses and other municipal transport to get the poor out.

They didn't even follow their own plan. Please spare the Bush hatred and race baiting - this is not the time.

Regards,
NSM

I'm from NY (born and raised) and just moved to Arizona 2 months ago. I was there during 9/11, I understand the concept of local government accountability very well. But don't you think I saw first hand how Giuliani took charge of the situation. "Blaming this disaster on an inadequate federal response"?? Fact: Katrina was to blame for this disaster. Fact: Regardless of how you feel about Nagil, there WAS NO federal response until days and days after the fact. Who in the world is advocating that the federal government should take over all local responsibilities? A catastrophic event of these proportions should warrant the attention of the President of the United States of America. Even if Nagil were to get every single citizen on a bus, where is he taking them to? It's not as simple as saying just drive the whole city of people in school buses 100 miles north to the nearest Holiday Inn. And I'm sorry but this issue goes beyond the neo-fascist and lib name calling. But that's just the way you want to see it. Label me as a "clueless lib" blame everything on a man who showed heart and courage to stand up for the people of NO when absolutely nothing was being done. You want to say that it's all his fault and he should resign? This man has more character and courage than a lot of other politicians have who prefer to stand there during such a time of crisis and praise the government for doing absolutely nothing. You want to hold one man, Nagil, as being responsible for all this?? Even George W said, "who knew the levees would fail"? If this is how you feel about Nagil, how do you feel about your commander and chief? Are you telling me that his response was appropriate and did not cause lives to be lost? He didn't do anything for us for 9/11 and he didn't do anything for us now. I only would wish the George W would show even 1 percent of the compassion that Nagil has. If you just merely think that Nagil was "cursing like a thug" and being even want to throw God into the mix, you've got to be kidding me. Nagil's argument was for the people, he wasn't going to sit around and watch what was unfolding regardless of mistakes that made. Something had to be done and nobody was doing a thing about it. I'm sorry to say that I am not only embarrassed for this country but I am also scared and it's not the Nagils of this country I'm scared of. It's the Bush's of this country and all his followers. What Bush has done is Blasphemy. He is a fraud and taking this country for a ride. He's killing people abroad, killing our soldiers, and not even showing an ounce of compassion for the good "religious" people of our country except for photo ops. This is what Jesus really wants? I never knew Jesus was an advocate of Operation Shock and Awe, don't even let me get started. How dare he appoint himself as a messenger from God out to free the world of evil dictatorship (as long as that particular dictator is standing in oil rich land). Please. George W does now speak for me, the voice of Nagil representing the poor forgotten people of this country crying for help speaks for me. I share his sentiments and it's about time someone in this country had the courage to stand up to the dictatorship that we have here in America.

This is all outrageous and in the midst of our country falling to pieces I stumble across a bunch of people pointing fingers on Nagil. I'm sorry to say that "accountability" for this atrocity should not fall on the shoulders of one man you think brought this on himself. I stood screaming right along side of Nagil and I applaud his actions, his words, and most of all his compassion! Maybe mistakes were made. Maybe more things could have been done to prevent this going back way before Nagil. Don't preach to me about the execution starts at a local level. 3-5 days until the feds get there???? How about 9/11? Should we have waited 3-5 days until something was done? I do believe it was much faster than that. Why should Katrina have been any different? It's all about the people who needed help. You are telling me it was okay for the people to wait 3-5 days while they lay dying in the street right where they stand? Help me understand this please. There is only so much local government can do and 3-5 days is not an appropriate amount of time in such a horrific event such as this. Our President also had plenty of time to prepare in the even that the "local" government needed to be helped out. Nagil could have rounded buses up but there still would have been people left behind. He was faced with an impossible task, a task that would have been doomed to failure no matter what actions were taken. How do you evacuate an entire city and just move them with using only the help of local police departments? How do you manage a city after such an event without the National Guard? How many police officers turned in their badges and walked off the job? You know once Nagil sounded off and reporters showing what was really happening down there, Bush felt the heat of his opinion polls and finally acted. It took a matter of day, not even before the appropriate response was FINALLY taken. Once George W had egg on his face, then you saw some serious action. So your argument that, even given the scope of this disaster and the fact that it was more than the local authorities could handle, 3-5 days is a sufficient amount of time for our own military and national guard be brought in to get everything under control and save lives?? You sit here and blame Nagil then you best be blaming the president as well. On the Presidential level, inexperience and failure is just not an option. Let me put emphasis on the word "inexperience" one more time. And George W has failed us once again on a grand scale. Wake up.

I'm not speaking here from a political or religious view. I mentioned MoveOn.org because that is action being taken. You ought to do something instead of sit around and point fingers, using Nagil as a scapegoat because he stood up against a uncaring president. You can pick apart the why and how all you want. Nobody expected this.. and when it happened it's not the one man who stood up for what is just and right. He may have been pretty shook up about this and so was I.. so was a lot of other people in this country. I'm a grown man of 34 years and I cried at what I was seeing with my own eyes... in this country... America the proud and beautiful. Here! It happened here. Talk all you want, blame all you want, say what you want. For most people in this country, I'm finding that they better hope there is no God because if there is we will all stand before him/her and be judged. God forgives and I think he would forgive Nagil if there was intentional neglect on his part because he cares and he is a compassionate man. That's not even to say that he did indeed make any mistakes. I don't think any of us could sit here and throw blame on someone until we ourselves are a Mayor of a City during one of the most tragic and horrific events in this country's history. Talk politics all you want, I'd like to see how any of you react once you were put into his shoes for that week. There is no way he could have single handedly evacuated an entire city of ten of thousands of people in such a short amount of time and if he did, where would he have brought them? Maybe you critics of Nagil should look at the larger picture here or is it that perhaps your hearts have grown as cold as George W's?

I'm done here. 'Nuff said.

A great post Bill. Two items to chew on:

1) If I were a NO resident surviving this thing, and I found out about some of this information you and others are posting, I would sue the city. I would also press criminal charges against Nagin for homicidal negligence. Don't think this has not occurred to him - and don't think it's not going to happen. We (I live in the NYC area) saw suits for 9/11, and the cops and mayor were magnificient. In NO, things were not well handled, to say the least, and the suits will stick. If the city's not bankrupt now, it soon will be. They'll go after the state, as well.

2) If things aren't bad enough: What happens when the intemperate Nagin has to negotaite with Federal officials for aid once those people are resettled? Think Bush is going to forgive and forget once the TV crews have gone home? Think he feels like handing a few billion over to one of the most politically corrupt states in the nation? (And I live in JERSEY.) Result: New Orleans gets screwed again.

Linked at "Oldad Thinks." I appreciate your research.

I expanded a bit on this post.

Funding for upgrading and repairing the dyke was shortchanged. The Army Corp. of Engineers warned that it needed to be upgraded to be able to remain intact in case of a Hurricane greater than Cat. 3. With the Iraq war, there have been cuts in Libraries, Police Departments, Fire Departments, Parks activities, and more. We are spending about $1 billion a week in Iraq.

The Levee broke because it was put on a back burner in terms or prioritities. In our arrogance to want to invade another country just because we can, we wind up failing our own people at home. Just as fighter jets would scramble to intercept a jet suspected of having a terrorist on it, the army or national guard should have swooped in at the speed of sound when that dyke broke. If terrorists blew up the dyke and caused all of this, we would be outraged. We allowed it by not having our priorities straight. New Orleans alone will exceed all of the events of 9/11 in terms of cost in $$ and humans lives. Sure people die in hurricanes, but that dyke should have been fixed like it were an emergency. George Bush took us to Iraq to "defend freedom" and find weapons of mass destruction. Should our country fall into disrepair to achieve this? What exactly are we achiving in Iraq anyway?

Garrett, you have got to be kidding? How can you possibly see this as leadership? Folks like yourself, that voted for Nagin for Mayor, got exactly the leadership they asked for: a) someone that was more concerned about keeping the tourism dollars flowing rather than evacuating the city, b) not following the plans and policies set forth by their own jurisdictions to maintain the safety of their people, and c) squandering funds provided by the federal government following 9/11 to make sure his city had the resources (like satellite phones?) for emergency situations. Yep, that's just what we need -- more people like Nagin (and many of his constituents) waiting to be bailed out by someone else instead of taking responsibility for their own lives (and their own constituents). It was a category 5 hurricane at the time of the initial evacuation! -- if you were Mayor, do you just let the sick and elderly and poor sit and wait to die? That's not what I expect of a leader... at least not where I pay my state and local taxes. Let's not forget there are 50 states in this Union -- our local and state governments are, and always have been, our first line for resources.

Ok guys, take a breathe.. even if we do as you suggest.. {How did you put it again??, oh, yes}.. "Blah blah blah, start at state and local government", it will have to end with the "big-chief prez" and we all know, the more you try to take the focus off of Bush by pointing fingers at one small mayor, the more that, in the end, Bush is going to look like the evil-doer he really is.

You tell Mike that he's an "uninformed Lib", yet his words just happen to echo the sentiment of fed up Americans everywhere. Also, maybe Mike is also well read on the present day global views of this situation and our "Commander in Chief". Moreso than any one of you chicken-hawks.

Simply put, maybe Mike knows we're being mocked because of vast video footage and headlines that make us look more like a third-world nation than the America I know and love!! I'm sure it's definitely NOT the America we are to have everyone RESPECT. And please don't say who cares what the rest of the world thinks... I know Bush doesn't care.. except for prince of Saudi Arabia...the only one he wants to hold hands & stroll thru the Rose Garden with, but the rest of us DO care that we remain looked up to. We had what other countries could admire. 9-11 is proof of that..and so many other courageous RIGHTEOUS events we took part in and even initiated for the sake of humanity everywhere.

Now let's get started with my real point here. Those school buses?? What about them?? Are we now to believe the mayor was to have school bus drivers acting in some official capacity as trained evacuation specialists? Was he to ask them or demand they endure being split up from their family to take on a responsibility they should not be asked or told to?

Besides, Nagin couldn't "make" school bus drivers act in an "improvised" evacuation process. Firstly, school bus drivers, or any citizens for that matter, did not bargain for such responsibility, nor should they be held to take that responsibility. Secondly, the results could have proved to be yet another full-blown disaster w/chaos on the streets and/or highways, as a fleet of rogue school buses evacuated in an un-uniformed, unplanned, and unpracticed process. Talk about gross negligence!!
One accident could have left EVERYONE stranded.. even the rich folk!! The good people of NO deserve more than that!! Despite your views, these good people pay taxes and never asked for much until this point. This country owes them much much more than this!!

This responsibility would understandably go to the people we depend on in times of disaster and crisis,... Professionals trained in safety and security procedures
like, i dunno, LA's National Guard? The same NG the mayor and governor of New Orleans would have, had their president not taken them away to not guard, but to "fight" on foreign soil!! geez.. wasn't really what these poor National Guards bargained for either, is it now??

As far as I'm concerned, local & state did what they had to do... calling on our Government to help their city and state. After all, it's our Government who left them with nothing to protect themselves, right??

But that was too much to ask... Bush knew he had sent all of their Nation Guards and all of their high-water vehicles to Iraqi.... Yet days after, even though the mayor and governor started their public pleas and huge SOS's, Bush insisted that he couldn't help cause, well... see... "They weren't invited to help".

C'mon sheeple... can't you see Bush is confused?... "Vampires" need to be "invited in", not our great Nation... the Nation we believe in, pledge allegiance to, fight for, die for, pay taxes to ... all for a little piece of mind and a feeling of safety... A feeling that is now, unfortunately shattered!!!!

Also, everyone seems to forget... it was not just LA affected by Katrina...
Mass destruction in Mississippi ya know!!

The Homeland Security Secretary, Michael Chertoff dubbed this as the "Biggest Disaster in History".. not "Biggest in American History"..NO, he said Biggest in HISTORY!! That's a bold statement to make...

Given statement, however, people should feel ashamed of themselves for even suggesting that school bus drivers in the city of New Orleans be responsible for the evacuation of approximately 100,000 people!!!

get real already

Hey it's obvious to me the people of New Orleans should start by lynching the Mayor, and work their way up. As far as I'm concerned the head of FEMA in his freshly pressed suit looked well rested and smug in his press releases so much so you just wanted to reach into the TV and smack him. At least Bush and the Gov. of Louisianna bothered to look the part of busy & concerned. The truth is yet to be determined! The mayor just looked like oh S*** this is where they figure out I'm not qualified, when he wasn't having Bi-Polar fits. But hey where does the responsibility lie, with US, we elected them all. We bought the hype instead of a few good leaders we got a few good looking leaders, slick talkers, money raisers, politicians. Used to be you could get a cup of coffee or a tank of gas for a buck and a politician. Heck those days are gone too.
Next time I wont vote A (red) or B (blue) but C new! constitutionparty!

Good luck, and lets learn our lesson this time at last.

Matt H

"But it appears that nothing had been changed by the time Katrina made its appearance in the Gulf.

After Ivan, Blanco and other state officials boasted that, while irritating, the clogged escape routes got people out of the most vulnerable areas.

"We were able to get people out," state Commissioner of Administration Jerry Luke LeBlanc said. "It was successful. There was frustration, yes. But we got people out of harm's way."

After Katrina struck, however, escape routes out of the city were clogged with bumper-to-bumper traffic, leaving some motorists on the road when the Hurricane arrived.

A new photo from AP shows a huge fleet of school buses lined up in a now flooded parking lot - what appears to be enough transportation sufficient to have evacuated many of those stranded in the city and left to endure unimaginable conditions - transportation that the mayor failed to use when there was still time to use it.

The lessons of Ivan were never learned, and the people of New Orleans paid the price."

More unused buses: Junkyard Blog
These two articles sum up the theme of responsibility pretty good: ChronWatch
NewsMax.com

Nagin and Blanco had the chance, the responsibility, and screwed up.

I don't see President Bush's name in here.

Do not waste your time with things like Mike or Garrett. They are not intelligent enough to undestand that leftists like those at Moveon are deadly and totally "not rational".

As an military logistician, I feel the need to discuss the logistics of this situation a bit for those who are complaining of the slow reaction time. OldSpook already did a fantastic job broaching the subject of logistics, and I wanted to further the discussion. Walk through this with me:
- First off, is this a push system or a pull system? That is, do we just send in whatever supplies we think are needed (pushing them in, regardless of what's actually needed) or does someone on the ground there specifically request what they need (pulling them in)?
- What is needed immediately in the affected area? Food, water, medical supplies, obviously. Who communicates that to whom? Especially if power is out...
- How much do you need? 9 liters of water? 9 million? How many bandaids? How many MREs?
- Where do you get all that from? A variety of sources...some government stockpiles, some commercially sourced, some donated. But you have to "find" it first.
- Where is it when you acquire it? Baton Rouge or Oregon?
- Once you find it in Baton Rouge or Oregon, how do you get it to a staging area? For that matter, where is that staging area?
- What mode do you use to transport it from the staging area to the area in need? Massive air drops are one way, but they tend to work in large open areas that aren't under water. Another poster commented about a C-130 being ready in a few hours' time to air drop supplies. That may be the case if a C-130 was waiting around to do this with nothing else to do and if there was a place to drop the stuff. In Iraq/Afghanistan, there tends to be more wide open space on the ground into which the supplies can fall. More precise air drops are done using helicopters, but 1) those could be very small compared with what's needed, 2) most/all helos were saving people. So what's left? Trucks/wheeled vehicles.
- Ok, now where do they come from? Government or commercial. Gotta source the trucks to move the supplies, and then marry them up at the staging area (although if the stuff arrived at the staging area in a truck, this step is already done).
(And keep in mind that most/all the vehicles in the area are damaged/or non-existent, so they have to come from further out. Which takes time.)
- Ok, now that vehicles and supplies are married up, where do they go in the city? You need drop-off points which can handle big vehicles and store the supplies, but which are close to the people so no further transportation has to be done. Since the city is mostly under water, these drop-off points may be few to none. Who finds these points? And how do they get there? What routes are open? And do they need guards? Since gangs/looters are rampant, would sending unguarded trucks in be pointless? Where do these guards come from?
- Once trucks/supplies get in to the drop-off area, how is the stuff unloaded? By hand is slow, but forklifts are probably scarce, especially in downtown NO. Especially after a massive hurricane, flooding, looting.
- And who's coordinating all this? Who guards the supplies once they arrive? Who hands them out? Who keeps the mob of people away from the distribution point?
This certainly isn't an all-encompassing look at the logistical nightmare that is going on down there. It's just something to think about when someone is screaming "Why don't they DO something?" There are MANY things that have to be coordinated to make it all work. To make matters worse, we're dealing with a mix of state, local and federal agencies, not to mention the military.
I think that it's a miracle these supplies arrived within a few days, and I salute those who are doing this job.

Just a thought.

Jennine--

"Given statement, however, people should feel ashamed of themselves for even suggesting that school bus drivers in the city of New Orleans be responsible for the evacuation of approximately 100,000 people!!!

get real already"

Wow Jennine. How about helping a neighbor even when you're not asked to? The point Jennine is that buses are sitting there parked and now flooded. They could have been utilized for two days prior to move people out harm.

Your union mentality is lost in a crisis.

It's not hard to understand this type of thinking. It goes like this: If I choose to live irresponsibly (lifestyle, financial planning, etc.) then I expect the rest of the world to clean up my messes. I'm never responsible, personally.

Liberals like Cindy Sheehan immediately came out and said "“so he [George W. Bush] will be heading to Louisiana to see the devastation that his environmental policies and his killing policies have caused.”

In other words, she immediately went to blaming Bush for nature (instead of offering to pull her peace goons off the ranch to help).

There is some blame to men for this destruction--and that is, over the years we have continued to build cities and high rises on sandy grounds.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that building a city in a bowl might not be the best locale to settle (especially for poor that can't afford supposedly indestructable abodes.)

We see more and more destruction from these hurricanes because we have more and more economic development in vulnerable places. And people who choose safer places like Tennessee, will continue to have to bear the burden of subsidizing those who choose less wisely.

Pleeeasse! Don’t you know how pathetic this all is. I’ll try my hardest to go with you on this one and let’s say that the Mayor shared a very small piece of the responsibility for what went wrong. But, really, the stark truth is that Bush’s administration were incompetent. They were slow and you know it. This desperate searching for flooded yellow buses in New Orleans is pathetic. I’ll just point out the massive difference in time scales between the response times you are asking from a mayor (with relatively meagre resources in the middle of a hurricane with thousands of people trying to get out and with the drivers all over the place and themselves in the middle of a very scary situation) and the President of the United States (with the US military and all the resources of a fully composed country at his beck and call): half a day, a day (??) versus three, four or five days of blissful inactivity. I know some of you are going to be really angry that I wrote this but please sometimes there just comes a time where you have to be honest and hold your hand up and say “Our guy messed up” and take the flack that is coming. I know you all want to insulate yourselves from this with a nice blanket of pictures of a few hundred flooded out yellow buses in New Orleans (How many people would they have been able to get out anyway?) but is that honest? By the way, if you want to engage in petty party political defence then look at Clinton’s budgets and FEMA. That at least would be meaningful rather than this pathetic charade! (I have cross posted this comment from Junkyard, because I think it also applies here)

Jennine, an 18 year old young man who had never driven a bus before borrowed one and got 100 people out of New Orleans and safely to Houston.

How many of the people in New Orleans trust those school bus drivers each day of the week to trasport their children to and from school? If you would trust them with children, do you not think they would be capable of acting as "trained evacuation specialists" if the need arose? You say that the mayor couldn't ask them to be
separated from their family, why according
to you would their family if still in New
Orleans not get on the bus with them so they wouldn't have to be separated?

You may want to close your eyes and blame
Bush, Mayor Nagin by his not using every available resource, compounded the problem
that the Feds have to deal with.

Jenine said school bus drivers were not required to be "trained evacuation specialists."

Puhleeze.

An 18-year-old kid drove a bus full of refugees to Houston.

Driving a school bus is not brain surgery.

If the school bus drivers wouldn't do it, hand the keys to the first 200 able-bodied adults who stepped up to do so.

Saying the buses needed to be driven by "trained evacuation specialists" is the liberal big-govt bureaucratic mindset that thinks people have to have government-trained helpers to do anything. It's a mindset that gets people killed.

Someone else said Nagin had "meager" resources.

He had somewhere between 750-1,000 transit and school buses, he had roads and interstates leading out of New Orleans and he had 100,000 poor people who needed evacuating.

What the hell else did he need?

I'd imagine that anyone who COULD drive left when the evacuation was announced.
That includes the drivers of the school buses.
They probably put the lives of themselves and their families first, which is what any sane person would do.

To matthew:

The Dept. of "Homeland Security" with a budget of $28.9 billion has "primary responsibility" in case of a natural disaster, according to their Web site. Do you mean to tell me that this bloated agency, with all the resources at their disposal, didn't come up with a plan??

"When I heard Mayor Nagin scream that he needed FIVE HUNDRED BUSES, it makes me sick to think he had that many or more which could have been used if only he acted in time."

Did they have five hundred drivers to drive them?

Were they organized? On call? Who was supposed to make the call for the drivers to come in?

WHERE were the drivers going to TAKE all those people? Was there a plan for that?

I can answer at least one of those questions. Buses don't drive themselves.

From where I sit, those 4000 LA National Guard troops that were deployed to IRAQ would have been real helpful, if only they had been AT HOME.

And that responsibility sits squarely at the FEDERAL level.

I'm not saying Ray Nagin is a saint here, by any stretch--there's enough blame for everyone--but the federales are clearly not prepared for an event of this magnitude, either, and should also be held to task for their part in this disaster.

In all my born days, I never thought I'd agree with Newt Gingrich, but I find myself backing this 100%:

"If we can't respond faster than this to an event we saw coming across the Gulf for days, then why do we think we're prepared to respond to a nuclear or biological attack?"

It makes me sad that this discussion is taking place while they are still rescuing folks and pulling dead bodies from the wreckage. Now is not the time folks. Trust me, this will be the most politicized, left/right fight we have ever seen. All you people do is fuel the haterd and animosity by focusing on blame rather than prayer and aid. Makes me sick. For months after 9/11 we pulled together as a nation until partisan politics took over. The disaster is still unfolding folks and you guys have already started in with the left/right, child-like rhetoric. Makes me sick. These blog sites are a hot bed because people get the feeling that their bickering and arguing is actually making a difference; It's not. You people might as well be saying nothing, especially to the sufferers on the gulf coast. This disaster will only polarize the nation more. It's obvious that none of you can fathom the severity of this disaster. Hindsight is 20/20, and right now, hindsight is exacerbating the emergency. God help us all.

"He had somewhere between 750-1,000 transit and school buses, he had roads and interstates leading out of New Orleans and he had 100,000 poor people who needed evacuating. What the hell else did he need?"

Competent drivers would have been helpful.

You're missing the point, Bill. One does not _need_ to be a 'trained evacuation specialist'.

However, neither does looking 'able-bodied' automatically mean that you're capable of driving a school bus full of frightened, sick, dazed, hungry and in-shock people out of what amounts to a 'war zone'.

They're called the NATIONAL GUARD.

We had 4000 Louisiana NG troops in Iraq.

That's a Federal responsibility.

Do not give Bush, et.al., a free ride on this one. They do not deserve it. Those men and women of LA Guard should have been IN LOUISIANA.

You would have had your bus drivers then, wouldn't you?

Yes, and how do you propose that Nagin or anyone else for that matter, mobilize all of these busses, track down each of the non-evacuees, and dodge traffic to get them out of town BEFORE the winds pick up? Yeah, so there were a lot of school busses that "could have" been used but in reality, it was not possible. The storm came in fast and hard, intensified very quickly and did not leave a whole lot of room for planning.

What would you be saying about Nagin if he had ordered the mobilization of the busses and 10,000 people were stuck in outbound traffic when 150mph winds swept ashore?

Please, spare us your arm-chair emergency planning. None of us has a clue as to the circumstances that kept Nagin from authorizing that mobilization. This is simply an attempt to offload some of the blame leveled at the federal government, whom, IMHO, seriously botched this effort.

We had planes dropping food in Indonesia 2 days after the tsunami. Where were the air-drops for our own American citizens? Where were the national guard, who's job it is to bring relief to situations like this? Fighting a war overseas for a cause that none of us is truly aware of (Was it WMD, was it to bring "freedom"? The story changes constantly!)

Of course, now that I've outed myself as a moon-bat liberal for criticising the war (God knows thats wholy un-american, un-patriotic, and a "drain on our troops' morale"), no one should even consider anything that I have to say. It's the Patriotic American's way.

It's sick.

It makes me sad that this discussion is taking place while they are still rescuing folks and pulling dead bodies from the wreckage. Now is not the time folks. Trust me, this will be the most politicized, left/right fight we have ever seen. All you people do is fuel the haterd and animosity by focusing on blame rather than prayer and aid. Makes me sick. For months after 9/11 we pulled together as a nation until partisan politics took over. The disaster is still unfolding folks and you guys have already started in with the left/right, child-like rhetoric. Makes me sick. These blog sites are a hot bed because people get the feeling that their bickering and arguing is actually making a difference; It's not. You people might as well be saying nothing, especially to the sufferers on the gulf coast. This disaster will only polarize the nation more. It's obvious that none of you can fathom the severity of this disaster. Hindsight is 20/20, and right now, hindsight is exacerbating the emergency. God help us all.

The Mayor is only one of a long line
of clowns shifting responsibility to
others. The media are the biggest
hippoctrites of all.
Everyone involved will keep their
jobs with a raise, and they'll put
casinos where the poor used to be,
and it'll be back to buisiness as
usual.
The USA is to blame.

Terry wrote that I was "famously independent", so thanks for making me famous!
And even if you don't like it, I thought your calling the Democrats "super-commies" is both amusing and misleading.
The current levels of incompetence within government does not rely on party memberships.

While there are good points made in this discussion regarding failures, the constant urge to force it to one political party or another are also misleading.
In addition to the devastation in NO, entire towns are gone in Mississippi, where the last 40 years of both Dem. and Repub. leadership have brought only minimal improvements to their and to Southern states in general(see the latest poverty levels in the new Census Bureau report). Sadly in these events the poor, the elderly and the sick die first.

A pertinent question I think is, do we hold anyone accountable for the breakdowns in the days after Katrina? There certainly seems to be evidence of incompetence at every level of government. (Though isn't it interesting that private groups and individuals have been on the scene and doing the job of caring for victims?)
And yes, I am sure red-blooded Americans of either party will call for a round or two of more nationalism and less state rights as a result of the storm's aftermath.
Storms do not give a flip for party memberships and neither do I. Lock-stepping your thoughts to a party belief system is naive

Never before have I seen a country so clear cut divided on so many levels... The United States of America are on the brink of civil war.

You people are going the re-enact 1814 all over again!

What is so different between 911 and NO? It is the source of the problem. 911 was from seemingly abroad man made. NO is, well let's say, a local act of GOD. 911 united the Americas. NO seem to divide it. This is not the time for partisanry whether you're a chickenhawk fan or a bleeding liberal heart the fact of the matter is people are dying RIGHT NOW.

I did my part and I don't even live in the US!

911 or NO results are the same, so action should also be the same. It's about saving people NOW once they are saved then you can point the fingers at whoever you want. Whether it be Naggin Nagin or Arbusto Bush.

Nagin failed to follow his own hurricane evacuation and disaster recovery plan, which includes the commandeering of any available transportation means ... like school buses and NORTA buses.

Nagin failed to make a mandatory evacuation order when there was still enough time and resources to get a majority of the people out. Blanco furthered this by waffling on her evacuation order, only making it at the urging of Bush.

The city and state evacuation plans include setting up shelters and tent cities outside of the disaster zone. Was this done? No. The people were sent to the Superdome, without provisions for food, water, or medical care in place or even planned for. There wasn't even a plan for what to do with them after the hurricane passed.

When outside entities (FEMA, Red Cross, etc) bring in the needed supplies, they have to have a location to go to ... such as the above mentioned shelters and tent cities. They have to be able to get TO The people. Again, Nagin failed to coordinate the relief so that it could do the most good to the most people.

Looting was no where near as bad in other areas affected by Katrina. What little there was got quelled early on with police given the right to shoot and arrest as needed. Nagin, on the other hand, ordered his police to ignore the looters and concentrate on getting more people to the already over-crowded Superdome.

The hurricane hit Monday. The floods started Tuesday. The National Guard was boots on the ground Thursday, with massive effort in place Friday. One, two, three ... four days. Other commenters above have pretty thoroughly outlined the processes it takes, by LAW, to get federal and military assistance to the site of a disaster. This was pretty darn quick, especially taking into consideration that Gov Blanco did not make a formal request, as required by law, for federal assistance until late Tuesday. And again, it was only then because Bush was harassing her into doing so, and was probably a few moments away from sending in relief without the request.

Mississippi and Alabama had no problems calling for help. They had food and water to distribute by late Wednesday. We are not hearing about these kinds of problems from those areas. Only New Orleans. Why? Could it be ... the local and state governments did their jobs and followed the plans? Go figure ...

I would imagine that if Bush (and do make note, I am NOT a Bush fan at all) had overrode Blanco and sent help to NOLA before the formal request, we would be hearing all kinds of ranting about federalism and state's rights and blah blah blah. He did what he could ... recall that he declared the Gulf states federal disaster areas on Saturday BEFORE Katrina struck, so that FEMA was already on alert and mustering. Take note also, that FEMA guidelines clearly state that their response time to a disaster scene is 48 to 72 hours, and that state and local authorities are expected to handle things until then.

Just what did Nagin DO while waiting for FEMA and the NG? Not much that I have seen ... other than cursing in radio interviews and blaming everyone else on earth.

Last night, I caught a retrospective on past major hurricanes ... it was SIX days before federal relief came after Andrew. FIVE days after Hugo. The response after Katrina ... THREE days, and the governor DELAYED her request by at least 24 hours after she could have.

The pivot point for this cluster f&%* is clearly on Nagin's head. He failed his duties. He should be brought up on charges, impeached and imprisoned.

If the levees hadn't broken, there would not have been this massive disaster, and no one would be talking about what Nagin did or should have done. Hindsight is usually uninformed or worse, downright cruel. We are all just speculating here. But my sense is that Nagin may have consulted with FEMA (the director was in New Orleans the day before the hurricane struck, telling people to get out) and evacuated under the presumtion that the levees would hold. He could have taken the extra step and ordered the buses out of the city so that in a worst case scenario, they could be used later for evacuating refugees. He didn't do that, but I don't fault him for not using them in what would have been a logistical nightmare - evacuating poor people, many of whom would have undoubtedly refused to go. Think about it - do you recall anyone, anywhere in the US ever ordering a complete and total mandatory evacuation using public transportation to acheive it? I don't.

What bothers me most is that, as I mentioned, the FEMA director was in New Orleans on Sunday, but five days later claims he did not know that there were thousands stranded at the convention center. This is total BS. What happened during those five days? Did he fall and hit his head? You couldn't HELP but know there were thousands stranded at the convention center! Anyway, Nagin is to be applauded for having the courage to tell the Feds to get off their asses. Otherwise, I can't judge him on his overall response because I simply don't know (and neither does anyone else) what it would be like to completely lose a city and all its infrastructure and then be expected to carry out all your duties with no communications or anything as if nothing had happened. And again, his actions in not utilizing the buses are being judged in hindsight. How many of you would have voluntarily gotten on a bus, not knowing where it was going or when you'd be back, based on the possibility that the storm could be destructive, but without any expectation that it could turn into the worst natural disaster this country has ever faced?

How about Bill and all of the other people who have waxed poetic on this post for so long now, take the next 5 to 10 minutes they would have used to post another brilliant thought here and go to the Web site of a charitable donation and do what you can now, instead of talk about what should have been done differently a week ago? That's what's needed now.

Now I'm off to make my donation.

Bill:

I am simply ASTOUNDED at the level of willful ignorance that some of your lefty apologists so readily display.

I learned today that LA Gov. Blanco is STILL resisting requests by the federal govenment to take over