Forget it, Bill. These guys are like the Klan. Anything that justifies their hatred MUST be true and nothing will move them away from it.

Yeah, I know.

The handwaving's already started at Calpundit. Not that I expected anything else, really...

J.

I grew up in the congressional district that GB Sr. first represented in Houston and have followed the bush story for over 30 years. I don't hate the Bushes. Heck, GB Sr. was a relative moderate in our neck of the woods. That doesn't mean he couldn't "get down and dirty" (Remember Willie Horton?), but he had the guts to fire Karl Rove for dirty campaigning.

GWB isn't a bad guy - but he isn't his father either. "Character" issues like the AWOL issue, Monica, and this new one seem of minor importance to me. What is more important is going from a SURPLUS to a 500 TRILLION deficit with a republican controlled congress, a record of job loss unmatched since Herbert Hoover, and the unmitigated gall shown by the "mission accomplished" photo op landing on the Abraham Lincoln.

I don't hate the guy. I'm just not real satisfied with his job performance.

Ya know, TexasToast, do ya think that the 500 billion dollars--about 5% of our GDP--that we lost in 9/11 would have anything to do with that deficit problem? Or that the recession that started before Bush took office would have anything to do with it either? Or or the dot-com bubble burst, which happened right around the time of the election, have anything to do with it?

This man has inherited more economic problems than any President taking office since Franklin Roosevelt. It would be nice to at least admit that there's some truth to that, wouldn't it?

Someone has stepped forward to vouch.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37904-2004Feb12.html

Hope he's ready for the onslaught and scortched earth tactics that's about to ensue.

For those who understood the underlying issues in this matter (UCMJ, OERs, etc) it was always a non-story; there was no "there" there. Unfortunately, partisan politics combined with willful ignorance and fundamental dishonesty (both moral and intellectual) kept the shit flowing downhill.
Interestingly enough, now that the charges cannot be supported on the "facts," the bar has been lowered and the goalposts have been moved.
You clueless f#@ks have no shame.

Actually, Texas Toast, it's merely a $500 billion, actually rounded, $600 billion deficit, not trillion. But wait around a few years.

This is with an all-Republican government, delivering pork to everybody they can get dough from.

It looks to this American like there is much to be said for divided government.

Being three orders of magnitude off the correct answer is no way to go through life, son.

sorry for the typo on trillion
either one half trillion or 500 billion - take your pick

ps - not counting any funds for our troops in Iraq, and not making the tax cuts "permanent"

Slarti

A friend of mine who designs and builds cropdusters tells a story of one of his first airplane designs. As he puts it, "the sliderule slipped". He was lucky to walk away from that one.

IMHO, the goalposts have always been and will always be, "Which of these guys do we want to hire?" Like it or not, lots of (most?) people understand and connect with "character" type issues than numbers with lots of zeros on the end. Just ask Karl.

The character issue IS a strong one. For instance, it takes a great deal of...character to pretend that absolutely nothing has happened in the last three years other than a Republican president and congress. Or that the surplus was due entirely to sustainable, smooth sailing under the command of a skilled Chief Executive.

I'm never going to claim that Bush is performing flawlessly at the budget helm. I'd drop him like a hot rock if something better and more responsible came along, but there's nothing on the Democrat side of the fence that's not going to be even more profligate; this by frank admission. The Dems have completely missed an opportunity to sweep the elections under a flag of fiscal responsibility.

And no, handing the reigns of our foreign policy over to the U.N. and the ICC aren't going to win over many folks who believe that U.S. sovereignty is a good thing.

You will never see an apology from the left over this. Never

Just as an aside, the three-orders-of-magnitude bit was poking fun; not to be taken as a serious attempt at argument. I take a five hundred billion dollar deficit very seriously indeed; all the more so because of the frivolous legislation that's squandered money in the name of national defense.

I'm not saying the actual defense has squandered money. Just the non-defense items that been funded on the premise that they're somehow related to the WoT, when they're actually not.

Who is pretending that “absolutely nothing” happened in the last three years other than a Republican congress and president? We may disagree, but I wont question your character for holding a different opinion of the job performance of GWB

It is of course true that GWB is not entirely to blame for the deficit and Bill Clinton does not deserve the entire credit for the surplus in 2000. The difference is that Clinton had enough backbone to face down part of his base and deal with Welfare reform. Honestly, had Bush done this? Even once?

It should go without saying that 9/11 was a shock to our system that has and will change things forever. It united us in a way that I have never seen before. (You may have, I wasn’t alive in December 1941). It also brought nearly universal support from around the world.

What has GWB done with that support? It seems to me he has abused it – but we can honestly disagree about that. But whatever he has done with it, he has lost it. We are back to the 49/49 divide of 2000 and have gone from something approaching universal international support to something approaching universal international condemnation. Its a real shame.

If you're giving Clinton credit for Welfare reform, you need to study a bit more history.

And, BTW, you did lay half a quadrillion^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Htrillion dollars' worth of deficit at the feet of GWB:

What is more important is going from a SURPLUS to a 500 TRILLION deficit with a republican controlled congress, a record of job loss unmatched since Herbert Hoover, and the unmitigated gall shown by the "mission accomplished" photo op landing on the Abraham Lincoln.

Oh, sure. You don't blame him at all.

The support started to disappear the moment we went to afghanistan.

In fact, the support was only wide spread in certain nations, while other nations were quite happy that the US had gotten it's just "comeupance" as they saw it.

And for universal condemnation, are you talking about France and Germany? Well, support for the world in the coalition (UK, Australian) is still more for than against.

So do we need to kiss Chirac's butt evertime we do things? Chirac was Saddam's payroll.

Let's calm down
We know that most of the 455 billion dollar deficit is due to tax cuts for the rich guys--I guess I'm talking to some realy rich guys -- Hey, what are you fella's doing making over million a year and spending your time here -- I thought you guys worked hard.
And no Osama.
But we cut the overtime for nurses today!!
Sounds like someone needs to be fired.