As I said, Mr.Hobbs, the key words are "National Guard". Why did he go that route when he could have elected the other services?

It's a poor showing for a man who might aspire to high office some day. Mr. Clinton did no better. Gore was somewhat better positioned in that a well-placed artillery round would have made short work of him and his bodyguards.

Todays world is more forgiving of them, but none would have lasted six months in the Roman Empire.

Michael Moore is a big fat hypocrite....

http://www.commondreams.org/kosovo/views/mmoore.htm

"We will all have to answer for this some day, and I would like to be able to say that I did not sit by silently while this was being done, and that I did whatever I could to stop it as soon as possible."

By endorsing the man who did the bombing for President!

Why is serving in the National Guard all of a sudden a semi-dishonorable thing? Only because today's Democratic front runner, Kerry, holds the Silver Star and three Purple Hearts, earned in Vietnam.

You better believe that if Edwards or Dean winds up with the nomination, the left's snide comments about Bush's National Guard service will stop PDQ.

There is no one in America who has documented the facts about Bush's military record better than Bill Hobbs.

Before the opposition snivels any more about Bush being a Guardsman, they'd better wake up to the fact that hundreds of thousands of Guard and Reserve troops are putting their butts on the line every day in the war on terror.

Anyone who serves in any capacity has my respect.

Just a comment to those who would disparage Bush's participation in the National Guard -- or Quayle's for that matter. I am of roughly the same age, and I legally deferred my draft date until the lottery and never had to spend one minute serving my country. I slept in my own bed every night, and I never had to eat the bad food or spend a weekend working with a bunch of knuckleheads.

At least those in the Guard did something. They were at least inconvenienced in the service of their country. Me and the vast majority of men who were draft eligible did absolutely nothing. Nothing.

The "poor showing" came not from Bush but from me, and all the others who chose to quietly wait it out and avoid the problem. I didn't do anything illegal, or even morally wrong, but in the context of the times, it is absurd to criticize anyone who served in the Guard.

JP - you wanna post that much, start your own blog. I'm deleting your exceedingly long "comment" - which wasn't a comment at all but a posting of a huge list of stuff you copied from somewhere else.

UPDATE: The overly loooooon comment from the Bush-hating troll has been deleted.

Also, thanks Donald for those nice words.

I wonder what JP said. Did he support you? Or show that you were wrong?

However...i would be interested in your analysis of the allegations (never disputed, as far as I know, by the president, before or after the election):

1. For a period of about 7 months he transferred from the Texas Guard to Alabama.

2. There is no record of his having flown or even gone to meetings in Alabama. The person who would have been his Commanding Officer doesn't remember him.

3. He didn't take a physical he was ordered to take, and was subsequently removed from flight status.

Now did these things happen or not? And if they did, was Michael Moore, using the words in a non-technical sense, not correct?

It also seems to be an insane attempt to prove something by repeating it.

Let me state, for those who failed Logic 101, the number of people who say or believe something has NO effect on whether that statement or belief is true or false.

Barry, he was a troll who cut and pasted a very very very very long file of information from AwolBush.com and posted it, essentially using my blog as his own blog. Sorry, but I want original thoughts and reflections in my comments.

As for your questions, I've addressed them in my various posts. And remember, the absence of evidence does NOT equal evidence of absense. But the presence of an honorable discharge, and records showing Bush put in MORE time of service than he was required to put in, indicate the AWOL/deserter charge is flimsy indeed. Read all my posts, Barry, before you ask a question I've already answered.

barry, why don't you find out and tell US.

#1. If he did, there should be a paper trail. From whence was he discharged? Alabama or Texas. If Texas, there should be a record of him coming back, which would have been signed by someone in Alabama.

#2a) Is there a record of EVERYONE else who fly or attended meetings? That is, is this a common paperwork problem or unique to Mr. Bush?

#2b) Does his commanding officer remember EVERYONE who was there, after all this time? Remember, Mr. Bush was no one particularly noteworthy at the time.

#3) So what? If he were removed from flight status in Alabama, it proves he was there, doesn't it? There's no point in removing someone from any sort of status if that person isn't present to perform it anyway.

If you care, you figure it out and tell us.

Jeez JP, why don't you fork over the cash and get your own blog? Reposting EVERY news article which said Bush went AWOL is not the sort of "comment" that most people make on blogs.

I also note that none of the articles produced any evidence that he went AWOL; instead; they say that they couldn't find any evidence that he didn't (i.e., none of his paperwork while he was at the unit in question). I don't suppose you're going to claim that the U.S. military beauracy (and the National Guard in particular) never misplaces any paperwork...

Clark's willingness to allow Michael Moore to make this statement without proof is tacit approval of slander. He therefore has no business getting upset at anyone who questions his patriotism or his integrity or his unnatural attraction to furry animals. I have not seen anything to prove that he has an unnatural attraction to furry animals, it is merely my opinion.

Mr. Clark missed a golden opportunity to show appreciation of Mr. Moore's endorsement, while at the same time refusing to agree with his position on desertion. It is not that hard to do.

Clark IS a furry. Well known fact around NATO.

Remember, it wouldn't be on the Internet if it wasn't true.

By the way (I forgot to ask this before), what is the nature of General Shelton's charges about General Clark's ethics.

I keeping with the standards of proof here, hollow charges are worthless. I am genuinely anxious to know what Shelton knows. Doesn't he owe it to the country?

I can't believe no one's ripped the first comment for the asinine statement that joining the National Guard is no different than dodging the draft.

Try telling that to the thousands of National Guardsmen who've fought for this country.

Unreal... and once again, great job with this documentation, Bill.

I'm no Clark supporter, but I think you are stretching the facts when you assert that his neutral statements constitute an endorsement of the assertion that Bush was AWOL from the Air National Guard.

My guess is that Gen. Clark is trying to have it both ways in order to make himself more palatable to the left wing followers of Michael Moore; if they would like to think his statements constitute an endorsement of that belief, he will not disabuse them of that notion--but neither will he affirm that Bush was deserter.

Is this an oily, political move? Quite. Did the General "endorse" the view that Bush was a deserter. Not quite.

Cam,
The fault is mine for not making it clear to you. To equate Guard service with draft dodging would be an illogical statement to begin with. One cannot dodge service by serving.

My point is that Mr. Bush was no different than many of us who tried to get into the Guard. We were scared as hell, had seen our friends come back in boxes and, since service was inevitable, sought the safest recourse we could. Of course some Guardsmen ended up in the middle of the fight.

My brother and I could not get in because there was no more room. The well-to-do kids in the area were already there. My brother and I had to move on, suck it up, and do what we had to do. We both volunteered for the draft into the Army. I had just graduated from college after being deferred (like Cheney, Limbaugh, et al), yet chose to go in as enlisted. We had begun to hear about officers getting fragged and it didn't sound too appealing.

Don't lecture me. I was rejected due to a spinal cord defect, but they were so desperate that I was classified 1Y and could still have been called up. My brother served two tours and was wounded in action, as well as exposed to agent orange. When he got back, he was refused the order for a beer in a restaurant we went to--he was too young to drink.

Again, please, what is the exact nature of General Shelton's accusations, or is he allowed to behave no better than Michael Moore? I would have given the General more credit.

SemiPundit:
You still miss the point. You're selling short all the people who have served this country in wartime in the National Guard. As Bill has pointed out before, the unit Bush enlisted in was actively involved in combat at the time he enlisted. It's bogus and insulting to Guardsmen and reservists everywhere to claim that he did it to avoid combat.

Big Dog,

How about you and Bill do a little walking around and talking to some guys like me who were there in the middle of the situation. Hint: Ask people whose fathers weren't congressmen or bank presidents which branch they would have chosen then.

Why do you think he chose the Guard over the other services? Why did he not just allow himself to be drafted or to volunteer for it as I and my brother did?

Facing the same situation today, what would you and Bill do?

Just to add to what the good Rev. Sensing said earlier:

As a former SD National Guardsman, I can vouch for the capabilities of those units. Especially when it comes to units from South Dakota, a state in which 2/3 of its total Army Guard strength is currently on active duty, with most going to support OIF.

"Why do you think he chose the Guard over the other services? Why did he not just allow himself to be drafted or to volunteer for it as I and my brother did?"

A point completely missed here is the danger involved with flying mid-60s jet fighters like the F-102. Bush chose one of the more dangerous jobs within the National Guard. Statisticaly, it may well have been more dangerous, and more challenging, than the jobs held by many thousands who served in rear areas in Vietnam without being anywhere near combat, and would compare in danger with many combat roles. It was certainly more dangerous than the job Gore did in Vietnam.

The accident rate in fast jets in those days was eye-watering. A friends father can point to a class of students he flew F-86s with and point out that a sizable group of them died in flying accidents.

If Bush really wanted to avoid danger, he wouldn't have been flying fast jets. And he wouldn't have joined a unit flying F-102s.