'The President and his very capable military'

This is the least intelligent and the most crass and brutal military which has gone into the field on behalf of the supposedly civilised West in modern times.
Here's a link to some more evidence of their capability in indiscriminately firing into areas where there are innocent bystanders. This marine has obviously been brainwashed.

http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/main5/21B87CDD2AD8EC65852570BD0057C3A2?OpenDocument

Posted by: Tony at November 19, 2005 12:25 PM

Mr. Hobbs, are you old enough to have been subject to the draft during the Vietnam War? I don't think you're analyzing this conflict with sufficient institutional memory. We did the regime change. We should safely withdraw our own people soon after the December election.

Posted by: Wintermute at November 19, 2005 2:02 PM

The constant theme of many on your side is that anyone who disagrees with you is unpatriotic or a coward. It is really a grade-school approach to issues.

Many conservatives used the same "coward" as well as "Communist sympathizer" terms against the late Robert F. Kennedy. Same against Martin Luther King, Jr.

It is just a childish shortcut to engaging people.

Posted by: Joel Thomas at November 19, 2005 5:15 PM

Joel - I've never called anyone unpatriotic for disagreeing with me.

And as for my "side", I'm on the side of the United States of America. I want us to win in Iraq, period.

Wintermute - no, I was too young to fight in Vietnam. I'm 41. But I do know the history and I know that it was the Democratic Party that forced the U.S. to cut and run, and that lead directly to our defeat and the subsequent conquest of the free people of South Vietnam by the oppressive regime of North Vietnam.

We didn't lose in Vietnam, we left. And South Vietnam was actually holding its own after we left - until the Democratic-lead Congress cut off their funding. That vote was, in essence, a vote to help Hanoi win. It is the worst thing the Democrats have ever done, and consigned millions to oppression and death.

A vote to exit Iraq before victory is achieved and secured is a vote to hand Iraq to al Qaeda.

Tony - the incredibly low levels of casualties among our troops and the low levels of civilian casualties attests to the skill and intelligence and capabilities of our armed forces. But are we brutal? Well, our goal is to kill as many of the terrorists as possible, and we are doing a bang-up job of it, so if killing bad guys is brutal, we're brutal.

Brutality in defense of liberty is no vice.

Posted by: Bill Hobbs at November 19, 2005 8:18 PM

The problem with the Democrats is that they can't get over the fact that a plain spoken God loving, Texan won the Presidency from a couple of East Coast, elitists who talked out of both sides of their mouths. They were in power in D.C. for so many years that they don't know how to lose gracefully.

If they don't like being called "cowards" for insisting that we "cut & run", then they should not call for us to "cut & run". The continuous "amnesia" act from Democrats is way over the top. Then the Republicans are trying so hard to be civil that they are behaving like a bunch of whimps. They were out of power for so long that they forgot how to "kick-butt". This President deserves their support. They could go out in front of the press every day and say something positive about the war in Iraq or positive about one of the President's plans for America. They could even attack the attackers for a change, but the only ones who latch onto the microphone are the Bush Bashing, USA Hating Democrats.

Murtha thinks that someone who hasn't been in the service can't know what it is like, so they don't have a voice. I've got news for him, we all have a voice and you don't have to have dodged bullets in a foxhole to know that war is a terrible place to be. Faith and God's Love can get you through many of life's hardships and pain.

Freedom isn't FREE.

Posted by: Rene at November 20, 2005 12:54 AM

Another reminder of past cowardice by Democratic leadership:
Post Desert Storm: After Clinton was elected, he failed to continue the successes of Desert Storm and completely pulled our troops away from Iraq.
To leave now would undermine the efforts of our soldiers who have and who continue to fight.
*Pvt. Oesterblad's decision to join was based on his research and personal experiences with the USMC. Please click on the link provided and read the article again. The "indiscriminate firing" was not an act of the US but of terrorists. The Marine Corp. RESPONSE to this aggression was to eliminate the enemy and rescue the innocents. Liberal bias sadly deludes the reality of this war. Semper Fi Marine. Watch your six.

Posted by: Tina at November 20, 2005 11:31 PM

Sir,
I have 22 years of military service. I have many Iraqi friends. I am in Mosul right now. I say this to establish that I am not some armchair advocate of military intervention, nor do I rely on second-hand information or talking points to form my opinion. The talk of a 'timetable' is a losers proposition. Establishing a date for withdrawal is the same as saying "we'll fight for x number of months and leave, whether we have victory or not". Warfare (as waged by Western Democracies)is not conducted for its own sake, but in pursuit of a goal. The obvious goal is to defeat the opponent in order to maintain your safety and existence. I don't know what it will take for the US citizens who are against our operations here in Iraq and around the world to realize the nature of the war we are in and the rationale of the opponents we face. I hope they wake up to the situation we are in and start taking the threat to our well-being seriously. Our opponents declared war on us long before 9/11 and long before we realized it--which is why we are forced to expend the current level of effort to counter the threat. If we had dealt with the threat properly when it first appeared, we would have won already. As for Iraq specifically, WMD was not the sole reason for ending the Baathist regime here. The UN resolution violations were reason alone. The general thuggery of the regime and its genocide in Kurdistan was reason alone. The support of numerous terrorist causes and the provision of safe haven for terrorists was reason alone. I could go on, but I will end with a more personal reason for staying until victory is achieved. The thought of leaving my Iraqi friends before we have fully established their freedom and provided for their safety disgusts me. It would be a cowardly act, and a foolhardy one as well.

JW Purcell, 1SG (USA Ret)
USACE-GRN-HQ
Mosul, Iraq

Posted by: J.W. Purcell at November 21, 2005 7:19 AM

"Brutality in defense of liberty is no vice."
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"We must destroy this village in order to save it."

Posted by: vietnam vet at November 21, 2005 3:05 PM

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